Best Results Organizing

Today, we’re talking with friend of the blog, Leslie Josel. You may already know Leslie from her business, Order Out of Chaos, and her various adventures in productivity. Her newest book was released this month. In this post, we’re going to peek behind the curtain on this multi-talented expert on ADHD, student procrastination, and getting everyone around to her to sit up and take notice of what she has to say.

Leslie, we met almost a decade ago at a NAPO conference, but we almost met at college. You and I missed each other at Cornell University by just a few months in the 1980s, the decade of big hair and oversized Firenza sweaters. Could you tell Paper Doll readers about your early life, college years, and the start of your professional life? How did they prepare you for a career as a professional organizer and ADHD productivity coach, as well as inventor, speaker, and published author?

I so wish we had met met at Cornell! That would have been fun. To save your readers from a long story, I’ll share this. I was a Human Development & Family Studies major. And not until I started my business did I pull all that old learning out of my brain. Trust me, it had laid dormant for many years. And I really believe it’s why I focused my business initially on the chronically disorganized, hoarding population, and of course, ADHD families.

For me, I was less about organizing and more about the human dynamics of it all. And if I’m being completely honest, I never really liked “organizing” and if I’m being really honest, I wasn’t that good at it. I was much better at helping individuals understand the root of their pain and things like that. Which in hindsight makes sense of why I stopped “organizing” years ago and went the way of coaching. And when I was a sophomore, I was required to take a public speaking class. It was like the mother ship calling me home. I LOVED it! I liked engaging on that level. And I guess I was pretty good at it since the professor asked me to TA the class the following semester.

And one other fun fact. My mom died when I was very young — ok, that’s not the fun fact. But my dad really raised me as a single dad. And he used to say to me ALL the time, “If you can write and you can speak in front of a group of people, then you can do anything.” Probably that was more true back then, but it definitely focused me. I always wrote in every job I ever had, now that I think about it. I was a speech writer for the head of an entertainment company. I was a publicist right out of school and I was ALWAYS the one given the writing assignments. It was just a natural outlet for me.

What would you say was the turning point that helped you identify your true calling and fine-tune what you do?

So, organizing is not really my true calling. But it helped me get to where I am today. Organizing was a way to have calm in a life growing up that was anything but. My mom was terminally ill my whole life so things in my life and home were out of control. Systems and lists spoke to me. It was always what did best. Give me the big project and I loved it. Keeping on top of all the moving parts was like a big puzzle for me.

But it wasn’t until my son was 5 that my true calling was presented. He was diagnosed with ADHD, and you need to remember there wasn’t anything out there like there is now. There was no “internet,” no magazines or conferences, things like that. I had to rely on my own instincts and gut to figure out how to untangle his world.

You can read my whole story on my site, but I redid my whole house top to bottom so he could function and thrive at his best. A friend saw what I did, sent me to a patient of hers, and two weeks later I got four calls asking me to come do what I did in their homes. I turned to my hubby and said, I don’t do this for a living and he said, “You do now!” And that’s how I got started. Going house to house by myself working with families to set up systems and structures to help their children with ADHD. Remember, organizing wasn’t a whole thing yet — this was 2004 — and organizing ADHD even less so.

© 2020 Order Out of Chaos

Now 17 years later, I’m an academic/life coach for teens and college students with ADHD and LD [learning disabilities]. And my son is 22. So you might say Order Out Out of Chaos and Eli have grown up together. But becoming a coach for both kids and parents was the missing piece to my “journey.” It allowed me to make my business virtual, serve a global audience with a wide range of products and programs, and connect with those that need the most help.

So if I were to say what the turning point was for me — it would be two things. Becoming a coach and turning my business into a virtual one. Life changing. 

Until recently, you were probably best-known for inventing the multi-award-winning Academic Planner: A Tool for Time Management. Congratulations on winning the 2020 Family Choice Award, honoring the best products for children and families, by the way. How did your stardom as an inventor come to fruition?

Seriously, Julie? There is no stardom when it comes to inventing planners! Trust me when I say I don’t have a superpower when it comes to this. In fact, fun fact #2, I’m actually very conservative when it comes to my business. So inventing the planner was born out of a frustration and a need. And I think most of you can understand that. How many times have you said, “I wish there was a…” to solve whatever problem you had?

So there is nothing sexy about inventing a planner! I couldn’t find what I needed to teach kids “how” to see their time. And that’s a biggie when working with kids. So I ordered every planner that was on the market back then and put them all in my basement! I should have taken a picture! And the sad thing was they were all pretty sh***y when it came to giving students what they needed. So I started cutting from one, pasting to another. You get the drift. Then I had my assistant at the time (who had a graphic design background) make a prototype, then ran some off at the local copy shop and gave them to my local clients. And friends started calling…and then friends of friends. So I went back, made some tweaks and made some more. And it kept going!

The one very smart thing I did at the very beginning — OK, here’s Fun Fact #3 — is send them to everyone who was in my NAPO Student SIG [Special Interest Group] to get their feedback and to offer them free copies if they wanted them. That was huge. The reaction was extremely positive. And that’s when I realized I was on to something. So I got smart. And that means to know you know NOTHING about bringing a product to market, pricing it, etc. So I hired someone to help me firm up some of that stuff, get it patented it, price it. The rest I figured out on my own. And seven years later we sell over 100,000 planners all over the world to schools, students and stores.

What is really depressing about all this is nothing has really changed in the academic planner market. The category is still pretty sh***y when it comes to companies focusing on what a student truly needs. Slapping a new cover on an old style does not make a new planner intuitive to students. We say about ours: No Filler. No Fluff. No word of the day. A planner that does what it says it does. Plan Time.

And I’m REALLY proud of that, since I came up with it! OK. Time for FUN FACT #4. The use of planners, paper products and academic ones rises each year approximately 10 to 15%. And the biggest group that uses planners? College students!

A few answers to questions I always get asked:

• NO to an app!
• NO to an adult planner! (Lots of adults use our small size since it is really customized.)
• Yes, I’ve been approached by a major company to sell, but the deal fell through.
• And yes, another company tried to rip my design off. We sued and won! Being married to an attorney has its benefits! 🙂

But all kidding aside, the biggest OMG moment for me was the first year we hired a fulfillment service to pack and mail. The first two years, we packed planners in our basement. And at the end of that second year, my family held an intervention. Seeing pallets after pallets being moved into a warehouse for filling orders was the most “Are You Freakin’ Kidding Me?” moment. I was exhilarated and nauseous all at the same time.

 
© 2020 Order Out of Chaos

Your new book, How To Do It Now…Because It’s Not Going Away is not your first rodeo in publishing. You’re the author of What’s the Deal with Teens and Time Management?, and before that, you partnered with Susan Weiner on The Complete Diabetes Organizer. How did you come to write How To Do It Now…Because It’s Not Going Away, and was there anything different about this writing or publishing experience from what you’ve had before?

So you know that how this came to be was all you! And I will forever be grateful for your generosity. Fun Fact #??? Julie introduced me to my book developer. [Editor’s note: I’m blushing. But it was obvious from the first conversation with that publisher that Leslie was the ideal writer for the project.]

So here’s the Reader’s Digest version of the story. The last book I had written was in 2015 and it was geared to parents. I liked that book, but to be very honest I didn’t love it. I was held to a certain number of pages, format, etc. In 2018, I knew it was really time to write another book and the book I so wanted to write was for students. I spend all day every day with them. I know this population really well. I wanted to cut out the middle man, which in this case would be their parents, and talk directly to them. To represent them respectfully. To let them know that someone was truly listening and understood. To speak to them the way they would want to be spoken to. So this whole writing experience was super different from what I was used to.

My last book was geared to parents. My Dear ADHD Family Coach columns are geared to parents. Even the articles I wrote for Family Circle were geared to parents. Being able to write for students was very freeing. I knew I had to speak their language. I knew I had to bring in all my student stories so anyone reading the book could identify. I knew it had to be real. NOT judgmental. And funny! So in some ways, this book was super easy to write. The greatest compliment I get after someone who knows me reads this book is that they feel like I am speaking directly at them.

And working with a publisher that knew the YA [Young Adult] space really well was beyond a dream. They let me do my “thing.” They didn’t edit my natural voice. They let me get creative with the chapter titles, the classroom confessionals, and all the funny stuff in the book. In other words, they trusted me. And in turn I trusted them.

The writing experience is different for every author. In the lingo of NaNoWriMo, there are plotters (people who outline) and pantsers (those who write by the seat of their pants). What are you? Do you think you apply the anti-procrastination advice you give in the book to how you actually wrote the book? 

I had no choice but to be an outliner. My publisher demanded it. And that was hugely helpful. It helped me craft the narrative and be very deliberate in my writing. So—and sit down for this one—I only had two months to write the book and during THE busiest season of my business. I wrote the time management chapter over Memorial Day weekend of 2019. I was given notes and approval to keep going two days later with a deadline for my first draft for August 1st. NO ONE should ever write a book like that.

I wrote the book out of order, literally. Made deadlines for myself along the way. But it wasn’t just the chapters I had to write. I had to have all the apps, all the resources, all the student stories, all the classroom confessionals, everything. It was insane. I hired my son to manage the classroom confessional portion. He wrote up 20 interview questions, reached out to all my students on my behalf, followed up with everyone to get all the answers back, and then picked the best answers for the book. My daughter helped by taking every app and every resource I wanted to include to make sure they were current, etc. My husband proofread every chapter, giving me edits and notes when something didn’t make sense or needed more context. I would never have gotten through by the deadline if I hadn’t had their help. I did not involve my Order Out of Chaos team, since we were also in the middle of back-to-school season and they had to literally hold down the fort. Procrastinate? Not on this! Who had the time?!!

But I will say that I let myself use the advice I give to my students. I wrote the book completely out of order. Meaning, I wrote chapter 2, then 7, then 4, then 8. That type of thing. And I wrote the first chapter last. This helped me stay unstuck.

In your column Dear ADHD Family Coach for Attitude Magazine and in your previous longtime gig as a contributing parenting writer for Family Circle Magazine, you wrote for adults. In How To Do It Now…Because It’s Not Going Away, you’re talking to teens and college-age young adults. Which do you find easier? Why?

I think I answered this in the question above. But I will say this. Kids can smell bullsh*t. So you have to balance being overly nice and supportive with being fair but calling them out on their bullsh*t. And I think that is my super power after all these years.

What have readers been telling you is their favorite advice or anecdote from the book? What is YOUR favorite part of the book?

On a macro level, what’s resonating with people are the student stories. Everything from the student who works under the kitchen table to the college student who writes his assignments on paper towels. Parents are identifying with these stories as they are seeing their own kids in them and students are seeing themselves in these scenarios, too. How can you make up a story about a kid who writes on paper towels! Seriously?

Leslie Josel tells Paper Doll, 'You can procrastinate and that doesn’t make you a procrastinator.' Click To Tweet

On a micro level, it’s the concept that you can procrastinate and that doesn’t make you a procrastinator. So to get serious for a minute, most of these kids have been told horrible things about themselves or they think them on their own. They have been told they’re lazy or stupid or worthless. And right at the beginning of the book, I address this and squash this. Huge reaction to that.

And my favorite part of the book? God, Julie that’s like picking my favorite child. I would say the personal stuff — like Eli and Maddie’s own stories, and especially Eli’s quote right at the beginning. It sets up the whole book just like that. [Author’s Note: Eli’s quote is at the beginning of the introduction. You’ll have to read the book to hear what Eli has to say, but it’s a doozy of a change in mindset!]

Leslie, you’re a Renaissance woman—you work with clients, write, do public speaking and webinars—but when you aren’t busy being Leslie the Expert, what’s going on in your life?

My business takes an enormous amount of my time. So if you had asked me this question back in February, I would have said travel. My husband and I have a lot of wanderlust in us. We both travel a lot for our respective businesses and then on our own, with friends and with our adult children whenever we can. We are very fortunate that we can do what we do to some degree no matter where we are. Remind me to tell you the story of when I gave a webinar sitting on the bathroom floor in my hotel in Dublin. [Author’s Note: Please let us know in the comments if that’s a story you need to hear!] I wouldn’t have it any other way.

So, traveling was all consuming until March. It is seriously a hobby and a passion. Before the pandemic hit, if I was “home,” you would find me at a concert or broadway show. (My hubby is in the music business.) The perks of living outside of NYC. Two adult children that like hanging with their parents and I wouldn’t have it any other way. A hubby who I not only love but really really like. He’s my true partner in every way. And a posse of girl friends who are always up for a walk, yoga class, a cocktail, frozen yogurt, or a GNO. And if I need a true escape I swim, read entertainment magazines, and watch some fun television.

To get a sneak peak of the first chapter of How to Do It Now…Because It’s Not Going Away, access Leslie’s Spotify study playlists, and read reviews of the new book (available on Amazon and Leslie’s site), visit the book page at Order Out of Chaos. You can also find Leslie on YouTube, Facebook, Pinterest, and Instagram. And you can read my review of the book on Amazon, Goodreads, and the Book Resources page here on my site.

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